HTC Diamond & Touch Pro still have graphics performance issues
Last year’s HTC Kaiser driver fiasco is still fresh in the mind of many Windows Mobile users (and also ex-Windows Mobile users). DSF from Mobilewave.ro has been disappointed to find HTC’s latest devices are not free from the self-same issue.
He writes:
Unfortunately the latest HTC devices devices with Qualcomm MSM7201A chipsets suffer from poor graphics performance.
More exactly, game experience and video performance are affected.
Let’s make some comparisons.
Game performance
1) Quake 3 Arena – hardware accelerated game
Nokia N82 – Symbian S60 QVGA
TI OMAP 2420 @ 330 MHz, chipset launched in 2005
Graphic: PowerVR MBX
In action:
Dell Axim x51v – WM VGA
Intel XScale PXA270 @ 624 MHz, chipset launched in 2004
Graphic: Intel 2700G5 Multimedia Accelerator
In action:
Touch Pro/Diamond – WM VGA
Qualcomm MSM7201A @ 528 MHz, chipset launched in 2008
Graphic: embeded ATI Imageon
In action:
(the device in video is a touch pro)
2) Picodrive emulator – emulating Sonic 3.
HTC Tornado (SPV C600)
TI OMAP 850 @ 200 MHz, overclocked at 252Mhz, chipset launched in 2005
In action:
HTC Touch Pro/Diamond
Qualcomm MSM7201A @ 528 MHz, chipset launched in 2008
In action:
Video playback performance
branko.savic from xda-developers tested a video on multiple devices using CorePlayer 1.2.5. He used the optimal settings for each device. Here are the results:
- Samsung Omnia (Raw framebuffer): 442.74%
- HTC Universal (Direct Draw) 165.28%
- HTC Touch Pro: QTv display: 152.44%
Personally I’ve tested another video and got the following results:
- HTC Tornado overclocked (262Mhz) max performance: 174.22%
- Touch Pro max performance (528Mhz): 172,67%
3) Other games
Other games that you can test by yourself:
- Rats!!
- Ubulis TSE
- Spore
- DragonBall
- Prince of Persia HD
- Assasin Creed HD
- etc.
Those games should run smoothly on TouchPro/Diamond, but unfortunately they don’t.
As you can see in the videos, HTC Touch Pro/Diamond is below in all tests, it is bypassed even by a OMAP 850 chipset produced in 2005.
Also, in landscape mode you may notice an annoying redraw issue (Sync to VBlank), it’s noticeable on the left corner while dragging or when showing menus, for example.
Here’s some youtube video to see it exactly:
HTC Tornado (180Mhz) vs HTC Touch Pro (528Mhz)
Please note that the Samsung Omnia does not have this issue.
It seems that HTC didn’t work too much on the video drivers after all.. or is Qualcomm hardware poor on graphics tasks? When a decent driver/solution will come?
For more information please check the thread over at xda-developers.
Written by DSF from Mobilewave.ro.
Sphere: Related Content
Posted in Opinion, news, xda-developers | 
Tags: drivers, htc, HTC Touch Diamond, htc touch pro, qualcomm, video
I have not published this story – despite getting it from him – because I have doubts whether using illegal emulator of games console is good enough measure of graphical performance. Not because of censorship. I wish that guy could use some benchmark software from spb or so, and not some dubious software for these measurements.
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Hi Edward. On this blog I dont like posting negative WM stories, but there is no doubt the issue remains pertinent, especially with HTC pushing the HTC Touch HD as a multi-media device.
The fact is that the old X-scale intel chips had special MMX registers to speed up various things, including video decoding, which the Qualcom chips lack. If your codec cant take advantage of for example the mp4 decoding built into the qualcom chips then you will never benifit, even if you had all the drivers in the world.
In short, there are many Touch HD users who are pretty disappointed when they try and play their desktop video.
Of course the fruitphone gets around this issue by only playing video already pre-formatted and reduced for its processor. HTC should really make a desktop utility to convert people’s video to a mobile format themselves.
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Edward J.R. illegal emulator of games console? I think you are wrong. PicoDrive it’s a free emulator. You can find it on Modaco site (and they are very aware of privacy).
And about the Quake 3 CE port, what’s illegal? Since when porting games is illegal?
And for your information, the same version of Picodrive was used in the sega emulator test, recorded the same day. So why it’s not a good measure of graphical performance? It’s a real scenario.
I think I’ve done it right, I just showed the reality, not theoretical stuff.
Furthermore I haven’t asked you to post ROMS or something, I just wanted you to show the world the truth about Touch Pro/Diamond graphics performance, because many many reviewers/editors omit this part.
So I wish you think more about this.
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Edward J.R you really miss the point.
Why do you need numbers if you have the proof right in the front of your eyes! See the videos, look at the specifications and think. Is it normal? Dell Axim x51v it’s a WM device from year 2005 and it’s way better than those devices. It has VGA resolution too. Same port and settings of Quake 3 Arena CE were used in both Dell Axim x51v and HTC Touch Pro (I’ve got the config file from the guy who recoreded that video).
This is real scenario. You are so wrong by saying “I have doubts whether using illegal emulator of games console is good enough measure of graphical performance”. This is the most accurate comparison regarding OpenGL performance.
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Edward: You have got to be kidding me.
If someone doesn’t point out these ridiculous flaws, then they’ll never get fixed. Big kudos to you, Mr Admin, for pointing this stuff out. HTC phones, while very innovative, have seriously dropped the ball in the video drivers department and I can guarentee the next wave of phones from HTC will be plagued with the same problems if people don’t continue to give voice to this issue.
I’m appalled that the newer phones are still plagued with the same problems the older Kaiser delt with. This should have been resolved a LONG time ago. Maybe the guys over at http://www.htcclassaction.org/ should update their frontpage to include ALL of the affected phones.
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[...] Recommended to read more [...]
Great articles and finding,
I knew it, those variant will face same problem and I believe alot of people will upset imo
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Great article. I have a HTC touch pro and i’m coming from the HTC 6800/Titan. I’ve been let down twice now with devices produced by HTC+Qualcomm.
Enough running circles around the consumer already. Fix this problem. You’ve given all the excuses you can already, stop lying to the consumers as if you’ll get away with it forever.
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Please get spb benchmark:
http://www.spbsoftwarehouse.com/products/benchmark/?en
and test with it – as it is a respectable program – and then I can publish this story at msmobiles.com.
regarding legality of various things – I really don’t want to discuss it as it is relative and lines between legal and not legal are vague sometimes.
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Well, I can confirm lackluster graphics performance from various video players, which is DEFINITELY not a niche or fringe use. Benchmarking from Coreplayer and TCPMP, my 4-year old X50v absolutely slaughters my brand new Touch Pro, despite the 4 intervening years of techology. It’s not even close.
Videos I encoded with plenty of headroom for my Axim, the TP struggles to play smoothly. I can’t even get a 100% benchmark on ~500 kbps video. That’s dismal for such a promising device, and if it’s drivers holding it back, that’s a crime.
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Check this thread for a bunch of benchmarks: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=429679
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Im with you guys. I hope we all find a solution to this issue.
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[...] Vote HTC Diamond %26amp; Touch Pro still have graphics performance issues [...]
Oh darn, I was hoping to get an HTC Touch HD soon. Now I’m having second thoughts!
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Other great benchmarks :
GXmark :
http://www.int13.net/gxmark.htm
Vsbenchmark 2007 :
http://www.virtualspaghetti.com/index.php?index=2&language=en
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I am very disappoint from video performance of my Touch PRO devise. Poor video quality.
When I bought something I want run without problems,not search solution to solve HTC issue.
HTC…Shame
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Edward, why should I try benchmark tools if the real world scenario confirms the poor graphics performance?
1. Do you have the landscape re-draw issue?
Yes
Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8_fbUfVRZg
2. Is the videos playback perfect (try to put a video from PC, without resizing anything)?
No
Proof: http://rapidshare.de/files/41053549/RL_XQ_640×480_1500_128.avi.html
Use DirectDraw and Qtv full quality.
3. Games are working smoothly?
No
Proof: Rats, Assasin Creed HD, DragonBall,etc.
Try for example Rats, free trial avaiable: http://clickgamer.com/download.htm?pvid=15358
Should I specify that DragonBall run perfectly smooth on 180Mhz OMAP 850 (HTC Tornado) and on the Touch Pro is slow?
4. How’s OPENGL performance (hardware acceleration)?
Extremly poor in comparison to other devices, for example Dell Axim x51v.
See video comparisons below.
Conclusion: Poor DirectDraw, poor OpenGL performance.
I give you so many examples, some many proves.. why on EARTH do you need benchmark data if I gave you PALPABLE results? Or do you defend HTC?
[Reply]
[...] just read this at wmpoweruser.com and this thread [...]
Another perfect evidence of poor graphics performance.
Side by side comparison, playing PocketPC game DragonBall (I have to use SPHelper to start it on HTC Tornado!)
HTC Tornado (180Mhz, yeah only 180Mhz!, no overclock) vs HTC Touch Pro (528Mhz)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-F-8Saxseg
So what do you think Edward?
PS: admin, you can add it to the article. Thank you.
[Reply]
HTC and/or Qualcomm have really been dropping the ball. Going from an XScale Apache (6700) to the Qualcomm MSM7500 based Titan (6800) the drop in performance was huge. And the problem is just as apparent on the MSM7501a Touch Pro. I don’t know if the issues can be resolved with improved drivers, or if the Qualcomm chips just suck, but I can tell you that the Pro will probably be my last HTC/Qualcomm device. The Pro has a lot of amazing features, but the poor video performance sucks the life out of everything from GPS Nav programs, to watching video, to gaming…you name it.
Overall, I’m still glad I picked up a Pro as I believe it’s currently the best available option for me, but I’ll be waiting for the next generation of devices to really get me excited about Windows Mobile again. Hopefully the Microsoft produced, Tegra based, WM7 device pans out in the next year or so. Now THAT sounds exciting!
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Edward J.R. from msmobiles.com has NO reputation NOR credibility and is only a carrier lapdog if he can only write about SPB Benchmarks. Is he afraid to source an article himself and wants plausible deniability by only linking to some other site’s expose?
It’s already blatantly obvious from GLBenchmark (THE industry respected benchmark) that all recent HTC+Qualcomm phones are inferior to TI OMAP, Marvell, or Samsung. All the HTC+Qualcomm phones scrape the bottom (page 3-4) of the collected benchmarks (including X1, Touch HD, Touch Pro, etc) that cannot be “explained” except as both inferior software and hardware acceleration.
There’s only some potential speed improvement when you take HTC out of the picture such as with the Toshiba G810 (which happens to run Windows Mobile also), but that’s still inferior to any other OMAP, Samsung, Marvell cpu-based even when many of these phone devices HAVE NO GPU!
It’s even more blatant when the 3rd-party Kaiser 3D drivers blow away anything HTC+Qualcomm has currently has and almost matches the Toshiba drivers.
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@ NuShrike: Amen brother!
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coming from a htc kaiser to a touchpro im very disappointed that these issues havent been resolved looks like samsung will get my money in 09
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sounds like a game issue. my htc fuze works great for the business setting i use it for
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No one cares about business use. The device was supposed to much improved especially after all the complaints regarding the Kaiser. Unfortunately, It would appear that HTC has decided to shaft the society once again and bring forth yet another wretched device lacking the proper drivers and/or a good processor manufacturer. I have come to the conclusion that by continuing to shell out money to HTC I am only hurting myself. SCREW HTC AND QUALCOMM.
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And adding to the hole Mr. Edward J.R. from msmobiles.com dug, here’s a Phone Arena SPB Benchmark between Omnia, Xperia X1, and Touch Pro: http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/Sony-Ericsson-Xperia-X1-Review-review-r_2072-p_6.html .
It is VERY CLEAR that the Qualcomm cpu is 5x SLOWER than a Marvell for even 2D on the SAME OS!! Note that this benchmark is still useless for measuring 3D performance, but it’s a sign and the writing is clear on the wall.
[Reply]
[...] HTC Touch Pro Driver Issues Filed under: Uncategorized — greengalaxy @ 5:42 pm Apparently HTC is not very good with drivers… Guess I’m lucky to have any 3D support at all. Check out this site. [...]
So for now were stuck, but soon it will be HTC,
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I have no passion to waiting HTC Touch Pro 2, I love it crazy. so i search related post about touch pro (include at xda-developers)
Thanks DSF
Thanks Guys, maybe i’m going to get Samsung Omnia i900
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There is a game released by sony erricson called xtrakd, you can find it by googling 3d game xperia, it’s for xperia but runs fine on the touch pro and other htc phones since they are both made by htc. Sony seems to have better drivers for the qualcomm chipset as the game has graphics atleast as good as a playstation 1 and the frame rate is not bad. It used special effects you would only see with hardware acceleration. This game shows me that these qualcomm chipsets are capable but merely haven’t been fully supported with drivers. The emulators aren’t written to take advantage of the hardware in the qualcomm chipset and they are all years old and haven’t been updated.
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Just to let Johnathan Smith know, he says Nvidia is coming soon so HTC better watch out. HTC will be the main manufacturer to be using those new Nvidia chips. Have no fear, they will get them straightened out in the 3D graphics department!
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I’ve owned my iPhone for about 3 months now… my wife HAD a touch pro. Her iPhone came yesterday, and her touch pro was sold shortly thereafter to her cousin.
Samsung will be making money off of me from here on out. Reguardless, Micro$oft is garbage.
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[...] a lot of bad press, it seems HTC has had enough of Qualcomm’s sluggish chips. According to Digitimes, in 2009 HTC will be releasing up to 10 new handhelds, and unlike last [...]
[...] know that many HTC’s users are frustrated with the Qualcomm chip that HTC choose to power their devices, so I am certain that a lot of our [...]