Ballmer re poor execution in Windows Mobile: “We’ve pumped in some new talent” “This will not happen again”
Microsoft is hosting a Venture Capital Summit today at Mountain View, being attended by around 200 Venture Capitalists. Like everything else these days, the event is live on Twitter, and from there some interesting quotes have emerged about Windows Mobile.
According to Pjozefak, a venture capitalist, Steve, like all of us, regret Windows Mobile 7 has not launched yet. In his words “Ballmer says they screwed up with Windows Mobile. Wishes they had already launched WM7. They completely revamped the team.”
Beninato quotes Ballmer talking about poor execution in Windows Mobile: “We’ve pumped in some new talent” and “This will not happen again’“. We already know the company is pumping massive resources into Windows Mobile, calling it their second priority after Windows 7.
The companies keywords for the future is Seamless and Cloud, according to pjozefak again.
Hopefully, as in the past when the company has made a major turn around, we will soon see the fruits of their determination in real products.
Sphere: Related Content
Posted in 
Tags: 
its official!
windows mobile 5-6.1 is the vista of MS
and winmo 6.5 -7+ will be the windows 7 of mobile!!!
this makes me feel REALLY good!
its like someone doing you wrong then later realizing it and saying sorry
[Reply]
JKingDev Reply:
September 24th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
I disagree. Vista was actually good. Just bad PR and lack of drivers.
And 6.5 isnt really all that great either. 6.5.1 is Vista because it brings about substantial UI changes. WM7 is W7.
[Reply]
rad Reply:
September 24th, 2009 at 11:52 pm
Vista introduced a whole series of major platform advancements. It did have some issues (mostly a sluggish UI, and too-strict UAC settings), but on the whole it was a humongous step up from XP. I find it hilarious that Windows 7 is praised so heavily while Vista was trashed, because 7 is basically just a slightly smoothed-out version of Vista. The biggest difference is probably in marketing– MS ignored Apple's marketing the first time around, letting them kill Vista, but finally awoke to take them on head-on this time.
A better analogy is that WM 5 = Win 95, WM 6/6.1 = Win 98/SE, WM 6.5 = Win ME. Win 2000, XP, and Vista would be representative of all the generations of WM that should've existed but didn't, since MS has stagnated for eons in mobile. Let's hope WM 7 then is the Windows 7 equivalent here.
[Reply]
Yuri Andropov Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 2:22 am
I think you're revising history a bit on Vista. The first version of Vista was trash and was sold pre-loaded on computers that couldn't handle it. The first year of its release I had friends, family and even neighbors telling me how much they hated it. That had nothing to do with Apple or anyone else's marketing (besides maybe MS and hardware vendors overhyping it). Even now, the top-selling netbooks, even the more expensive ones, are all XP. I've seen the difference between Visa and 7 on netbook-class hardware (w 1GB RAM) and there's no comparison. Vista came close to being MS's O/S2. The main difference is that there was nobody to swoop in and eat MS's lunch. Linux (still) isn't ready for prime time and Apple just wants the high end.
Your WM version analogy is spot-on though. MS has never been able to get something new right on the first try, so I'm not expecting a miracle, especially if the Zune HD interface and the leaked "6.5.1" builds are any indication.
[Reply]
rad Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 3:31 am
Vista was killed by marketing. Sure, it had some performance issues on old machines and broke compatibility with old apps, but the 9x -> XP transition broke a _heck_ of a lot more in terms of drivers and old apps than XP -> Vista. The difference was that 1) you didn't have Apple creating the perception of Vista as a failure and 2) the blogosphere didn't exist.
I've used Vista since Beta 1 back in 2006 and the differences from then to Windows 7 RTM are not major, whereas the jump from XP to Vista was massive.
Those end users who were independently frustrated was just the change in UI, not because of major product deficiencies– people hate change in general. It's why the Office 2007 update received quite a bit of flak despite being a vastly superior UI scheme to the prior mess of unusable menus.
Windows 7 focused on fixing the minor issues in Vista, and much of the change you see is in the "look and feel" rather than actual performance. The animations to minimize or move around windows, for example, are shorter, as gradual changes make the system "feel" slow. Similarly they did things like trim the size of the startup and shutdown sounds, as that impacts load speeds. They also did some consolidation and reprioritization of UI processes to make it run snappier.
But overall, Windows 7 is architecturally the same as Vista. The small changes that were made in the underlying kernel were subsequently backported to Vista via Service Pack 1. People complained about compatibility on Vista– well, 7 does nothing much to change that (except XP virtualization in the Pro version on VT-equipped machines, but that's marginal), yet no one's criticizing that. People complained about UAC in Vista– well 7's fix is mostly just to kick the default setting down a few notches.
Basically, Microsoft has learned that you need to pay attention to the look-and-feel aspects like the "appearance" of speed, and more importantly, you need to market the OS well, or at least effectively combat Apple's hit jobs. Basically the message they got was that the Mojave Experiment (search for the Windows Mojave ads) is basically applicable across the market.
[Reply]
Yuri Andropov Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
I'll make this short. MS is at fault for pushing Vista out over manufacturer and user objections and trying to kill XP before Vista was mature, causing the widespread compatibility perception. MS is at fault for the "Vista Capable" program where Vista was sold on hardware that couldn't handle it. MS is at fault for misreading the tea leaves and not releasing a version of Vista that ran well on netbook-class devices. MS dropped the ball and Apple's marketing (as any competent marketing group would have) picked up the ball and ran with it. I don't know anything about the people or (high end?) computers involved in the Mojave marketing campaign. I do know the people and computers involved in the complaints that friends and family have had with Vista.
If you want to believe that Vista had a great launch and all the problems were in people's heads, go right ahead. I won't stop you.
rad Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
I don't know how you're reading that from my reply.
Nowhere did I state that 1) Vista's launch was a success (I explicitly stated the reasons it wasn't, and what MS has learned from it) or that 2) it wasn't Microsoft's fault.
The Vista Capable issue was essentially due to Microsoft bowing to pressure from Intel, as Intel's integrated graphics were behind schedule and a new version wouldn't ship in time to meet the Vista launch (so Intel wanted their low-end junk to still support the latest OS).
That said, in terms of real performance numbers, Vista actually runs fine on netbooks and is comparable to 7 except in start/shutdown times (I have an HP 2133 sitting here with a Via C7 1.6 GHz that shipped with Vista Home Premium and which I do all sorts of things on, from development to Photoshop work, etc., though 2 GB RAM makes the latter more usable than otherwise). It's just that 7 "feels" a lot faster due to the UI reworking I mentioned above.
Yuri Andropov Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
I guess I made the mistake of reading your first paragraph where you blamed marketing, Apple and blogs. Sorry.
You have a higher tolerance for UI sluggishness and twice the RAM I did when I last tried Vista on a netbook.
Casey Reply:
September 27th, 2009 at 2:07 am
Yuri, of course 7 works better with netbooks. When Vista was designed, there was no such thing as a netbook. You design software with a set of assumptions. If the assumption is that machines will all have at least 1-2 GB of ram which was a reasonable assumption, given the price of ram in 2007 (I had 2GB since roughly Q2 2005). Why would you design your OS for a machine that has less ram, less HD space and less processing power than what was expected to be a mainstream PC?
The reality is that 7 runs about the same as Vista on most new systems (or in my case, a not so new Core 2 e4300). What’s more, I ran the RC of Vista on as little as 512mb of ram on an A64 3000+ and it ran as fast as XP did on the same system with one exception: games. Audio was not good (thanks to Creative, who decided not to release any new drivers for either RC. Video was not good either, and that was ATI/Nvidia’s fault.
And if you think that XP was up to snuff with gamers upon release, think again. Major sites recommended people stay away from XP for over a year.
One thing you’re correct about is the Vista Capable mess. They shouldn’t have let Intel talk them into that. Intel’s IGCs were lousy (still are sub par) and MS should have told them to take a hike.
[Reply]
I think that WM 5 was fine when it came out. That is because there were less smart phone users and the progressions was fine. 6.1 was not really different from 5 on the front end so I think that probably hurt. The only thing keeping WM alive right now is exchange on the enterprise end and oem software (think HTC) and the ease of modification on the non enterprise end.
My only fear is that going forward, Microsoft will become more like other manufacturers and start going after folks like ppcgeeks and xda and end up pushing the people who are hardcore WM users now onto android.
[Reply]
Ballmer:
Longhorn. That will NEVER happen again.
Vista. That will NEVER happen again.
Search. That will NEVER happen again.
Mobile. That will NEVER happen again.
Notice a theme?
[Reply]
John Doe Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Bey bey M$.
Plez close the door behid U.
[Reply]
NuShrike Reply:
September 26th, 2009 at 1:53 am
Pink: That will NEVER happen again. They’ve been using the PINK handwaving for at least a decade.
[Reply]
I wish they would put just a TAD more effort into the UI of their own WM apps.. like Bing (formerly LiveSearch).. navigating the map screen is almost unbearable compared to google maps. Why does HTC make better software for WM than microsoft?
[Reply]
patiently waiting Reply:
September 24th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
…not enough whip-cracking would be the first answer.
Like in china, when you lose an iphone prototype, you've soiled your family name and commit suicide. And im sure HTC held their employees to the same regard if they dont succeed.
In the US, if you're working for Microsoft and put in a half-a$$ed job, rest assure that there's no repercussion for your lack of efforts and you'll still be going home with a hefty paycheck.
[Reply]
Paul Reply:
September 24th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
"Why does HTC make better software for WM than microsoft?"
With probably 1/10th the people. Great question.
[Reply]
gbomega Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 2:24 am
Taiwanese had been an OEM for big brands for many many years and had technological training in Japan, so they had the experience in manufacturing. With that they team up with design team in Europe and U.S. that's why they can produced such great products. But it's one in a million.
[Reply]
rad Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 3:35 am
Yeah, but that's hardware. It's shocking (on MS' part) that HTC has been able to throw together multiple generations of TouchFlo to reach quite a usable level before MS could change the default skin on its UI, let alone actually update any apps.
HTC's leap into making decent software and UIs was quite impressive. No other OEM has come up with anything quite to their level– Samsung, Acer, etc. are not there yet.
[Reply]
Yeah I also regret that WinMo 7 hasn't launched yet. Phone manufacturers don't want to release their top end phones with high spec hardware until it comes out next year. Even waiting for 6.5 is delaying product launches.
[Reply]
That's what happen when you have too many Indian programmers. Anyway 6.5 is just an update foe WM and as we know it is still clumsy because Wm is made to be used with stylus. Things will changed with WM7 but I am afraid time is not on their side as Android gets heated up with more sexy phones and skins running on it.
[Reply]
rad Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 3:38 am
Not commenting on your oblivious comment as to the origin of programmers, but I think at the moment Apple, Palm, etc. pose a bigger threat to MS in terms of consumer mindshare than Android does. Android doesn't offer the user experience of Apple or Palm (at least yet), and it's more of a threat to MS in terms of the volume game in lower-end smartphones. This is probably why MS is targeting 6.5 to take on Android and 7 to take on Apple and the others.
[Reply]
gbomega Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 3:57 am
The Plam Pre is second to iPohne in terms of user experience, I believe Android will grow from strength to strength given what Google had done. WM cannot be selling at a high and mighty price point, thus breaking into 6.5 and 7, but they have to be fast while they still have their advantages over the others, namely Exchange, Office mobile, huge developer base and forums like XDA . Motorola's Cliq is a good example of what the Android is capable of.
[Reply]
NuShrike Reply:
September 26th, 2009 at 1:58 am
I’m seriously beginning to think it’s the Indian programmers. Even Samsung’s latest OpenGLESv2 drivers for their “hot new” S3C6410 cpu/gpu comes from their India division and it sucks donkey balls on performance compared to the ATI mess on Qualcomm — if you take a look into their shader code.
This is two correlation points I’ve seen so far that’s lowering my opinion of “quality” from that region. Don’t even want to get into the call-center mess …
[Reply]
RAD – Vista was a bad thing. I'm quite comfortable in WIN land and I had issues 18 months ago with 3 different NIC driver that made me want to cry.
Apple clearly has the best mobile package right now. MS has sat on their thumbs for years. They seem to make money and keep market share in spite of them selves. They should keep focus on the enterprise where they have strong, although insecure offerings.
As frustrating as their virus situation can be, it makes me money.
[Reply]
HaHa, M$is unable to execut anyting.
Whats a patetic company.
[Reply]
joe Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
patetic spelling
[Reply]
Nothing wrong with Vista? Who are you people. Vista provides a horrible user experience – that's all that matters and it has nothing to do with marketing or any other company.
Android is already better than Windows Mobile and it only took about a year's time while Windows Mobile has been a decade in the making. Motorola and other firms have made the switch.
The extremely high adoption of Windows and Windows Mobile has just as much to do with uneducated consumers as anything else. Consumers are becoming accustomed to working on the web where speed and functionality are seemingly unlimited – if they know it or not they are becoming more intelligent consumers of technology. This does not play well to MSFT as it currently sits.
I definitely will give MSFT props on the Zune HD – it seems like a very cool device and the ability to have HD radio is pretty sweet. That would have been VERY nice on my iPod.
MSFT needs to get more drastic with the changes to their company. The firm has no identity with younger generations. Desktop applications cannot compete with the web. Salesforce, Google, and Amazon have a 10 year head start in the cloud, Windows Mobile is awful, and nobody cares about SharePoint 2010.
Mr. Ballmer is stuck in the purest innovator's dilemma imaginable – an entire company tooled for a market that is quickly disappearing.
[Reply]
Ming Reply:
September 26th, 2009 at 2:27 am
"Mr. Ballmer is stuck in the purest innovator's dilemma imaginable – an entire company tooled for a market that is quickly disappearing."
I think you've hit the nail squarely on the head.
[Reply]
“We’ve pumped in some new talent” and “This will not happen again’“? Methinks this Ballmer guy should have a chat with Fred Brooks.
[Reply]
I will never by an iphone or an apple pc but MICROSOFT NEEDS TO PUMP SOME NEW TALENT INTO THE FREEKIN CEO OFFICE AND PUMP BALDING BLOATED OLD FARTS OUT TO THE DUDE RANCH. my honest opinion. sorry for the caps;)
[Reply]