Does version 1.0 of WP7 need a front facing camera?

July 15, 2010 | By rush24

By now, everyone who has seen the Apple’s Facetime commercials either comes away impressed or say its nothing new since other Smartphones before it have had front facing cameras for years. The big difference here is that the iPhone’s solution is native to the OS and seamlessly integrates with the dialer requiring no further action on the end user to install a third party app like Fring or Skype. I have read enough stories comparing the HTC Evo’s Fring app to Facetime and the latter wins hands down.

Last month, I wrote a post that detailed the video calling advantage WP7 would have in conjunction with Windows Live Messenger and Video Kinect. It would be the best solution in the market but there is one little problem. The current minimum specs for WP7 as far as I know do not include a front facing camera. It is up to the OEMS which think it’s a big mistake. Paul Thurrot puts it best when he says…

I think the key to competing with the iPhones of the world will hinge in part on a constant updating of these specifications. In fact, the release of the iPhone 4 this year, with its amazingly high resolution screen and gyroscope, both of which impressively outclass Microsoft’s minimum specs for Windows Phone–speaks to this need.

the Windows Phone specs need to evolve to meet competitive threats. Phone makers should need to conform to the spec that is current when their device ships.

Now I’m not saying that WP7 has to have a gyroscope or a retina display, but I think that a front facing camera is must. They may not have the software to use it ready at launch, but they can always add it with an update. With video calling set to explode in the near future, it gives a better value to the consumer so that they are not forced to go out and buy a new device just to use the feature considering the fact that most phone contracts usually run for two years. Windows phone 7 is still about three months out, therefore, I think there is still time for MS and its partners to have a front facing camera available on all phones. I have my fingers crossed.

About Rush24

Rush24 loves everything Microsoft and is fascinated by the influence of technology in everyday life.

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Tagged camera, windows phone 7, wp7

http://intensedebate.com/people/l3v5y l3v5y

No OEM will be able to get a camera added in 3 months. There may be some who already have the camera, but it's unlikely to be added at this stage.

Video calling really won't change anything. Most modern smartphones seamlessly integrate the video calling in the dialler, and do video calling over 3G. OEMs like HTC have started removing front facing cameras, since no-one uses them!

http://intensedebate.com/people/rush24 rush24

It is just a wish for as many OEMs to have it available I think the low adoption rate has been due to the lack of its availability across all WM phones. Adding the PC via WLM and console via Kinect would change the usage IMHO because it increases the size of the audience tremendously.

http://intensedebate.com/people/l3v5y l3v5y

The thing is, I use a phone to talk to people, or to text/IM, not to video chat. I have a webcam, and have had phones that do video chatting over 3G etc, and have very rarely used it.
http://intensedebate.com/people/l3v5y l3v5y

It's not a lack of availability, it's a lack of need.

http://intensedebate.com/people/martinschmidler martinschmidler

It's a matter of taste, definitely.

I think that many people who look at a WP7 device in a store will ask if it has video calling like the iPhone 4. Unless copy & paste or multitasking this is something even n00bs will use on the iPhone
because it is natural and easy.

I bet some will buy an iPhone 4 instead of a WP7 device just because of that.

http://twitter.com/SelAromDotNet @SelAromDotNet

trying to put too much into a 1.0 product can only lead to failure. I say save it for next year and focus instead on perfecting all the goodness we've seen so far. I'd rather have a polished 1.0 phone than a half-assed 2.0 phone.

http://intensedebate.com/people/rush24 rush24

I agree with not having too many features crammed into 1.0 Basically the FF camera will sit idle until they have the software ready. At that time they can then turn it on and voila! a new feature without having to buy a new phone.

http://intensedebate.com/people/l3v5y l3v5y

But OEMs still need to add the hardware in now, and they don't much like putting hardware in, unless they can tout it as a feature and sell more/charge more. If the OS doesn't support it well, it's not much use as a value added feature.

http://intensedebate.com/people/l3v5y l3v5y

That's the way the iPhone has worked up to now, and it does seem successful, though adding new features each and every year will no doubt annoy many.

http://twitter.com/adamUCF @adamUCF

"With video calling set to explode in the near future". Not sure I agree with that. Yea, it's usage will grow massively but that's easy to do since hardly anyone uses it now. Will it become a staple? I doubt it. It's just not very useful.

http://intensedebate.com/people/rush24 rush24

Having the front facing just future-proofs the phone for current buyers because software can always be updated but you are always stuck with the hardware. Video calling may not be popular now but if you combine it with WLM and Video Kinect, I think it is a compelling feature that can easily gain a wider adoption.

William C Bonner

While I agree that a front facing camera would be nice, it has not been in the requirement list already. Adding a requirement at this point in the development process would only delay release and annoy the hardware manufacturers.

I think your basic premise assumes that everyone that has an iPhone has the latest version with the front facing camera. I know of multiple people who have recently moved to a smartphone for the first time, and got the 3Gs at the new lower price.
http://www.winetag.com.br bnlf

i really dont think front face camera should be in the min. requirements. Why make the device more expensive having a feature few ppl uses it? i think the best option is to make it optional for oems. One big mistake from apple which imo will soon lose space to android is the fact that there´s only 1 device. If the person likes the OS but don´t like touchscreen devices for example they wont buy from apple, they will buy another good device with a qwerty keyboard on it. There must to be options for everyones need. I think MS in on the right track finally.
hvakrg

I think alot of the OEMS already have cameras on their phones. And Microsoft does not need to create a separate app for videocalling, Any normal phone with a front facing camera can already make videocalls over 3G and have been able to do so for many many years.

As for integration it really can't be any simpler then it is on my Samsung Galaxy S atm.

– You push the button to open the dial-screen
– You enter the number you want to call
– Then you simply push the videocall button instead of the audio-only phone call button.

As for WiFi video calling I'd much rather see an open standard that let people on Iphone call people on Android and Windows Phones, then Apple, Microsoft and Google could have their programs work with that standard. I really don't think Skype is the answer, sure they're already big in the market, but as we see with Fringe or whatever the app is called it's not too open.

I actually think Leo Laporte said something about him being willing to back such an open standard for use in his TWIT-network not many days ago.

http://intensedebate.com/people/l3v5y l3v5y

As far as I know, the standard used for 3G video calling is pretty open, what's wrong with just supporting that?

hvakrg

Well It's a good idea, take the 3G video calling standard and create a IP-version out of that. Adding better quality and a way to have a conference call would create a good product..

hvakrg

As of making it a requirement I don't think they should do that, people might not want it and then they should have the option to buy one without it.

http://intensedebate.com/people/l3v5y l3v5y

For enterprise use, having a camera may make the devices unusable. Lots of places require phones without cameras.

hvakrg

True, but then again they would have to remove the camera on the back aswell.

Fdo35

I'm pretty neutral on the subject.
3DPiper

I'd be happy just to get a 3.5mm headphone jack..
bkwmiata

There is a reason front facing cameras didn't take off. I for one would only use it when I'm away from home and talking to my wife. Today teens do more texting than talking because they dont' want to be focused/ locked into one person at a time. Texting allows people to communicate with several people at once from a distance which is why it's so popular. Once you think about the real life usage and when you would really want to use a feature like face time you'll realize it's more of a novelty than a must have. MS is better off spending their time coming up with truely innovative features, rather than chasing after Apple features.
Jay

Aren't all new phones coming out with front and rear cameras now. there is no reason why an oem couldn't have the phones with a front and rear camera. All that would be needed is for microsoft to have a button that can switch between them while taking a picture or video recording. So I see what you're saying. I wouldn't put it on microsoft though. HTC, Acer, Samsung, LG, and the others need to put that camera on the phone. MS could then implement a version of windows live messager that could use that front camera. But i'm sure if OEM's want to put it on there, they will. MS sets a standard base of specs and if the oem's want to upgrade that then they should be able to.

http://intensedebate.com/people/l3v5y l3v5y

The OEMs will be able to add things, but whether the underlying OS supports it is up to MS. They almost certainly will add support for multiple cameras, but OEMs won't build hardware in until it's supported, which won't be in 7.0.

http://www.martinschmidler.com martinschmidler

As I wrote above video calling is something EVERY NOOB can use, in contrast to features like multitasking or copy&paste.
Look at the iPhone 4 commercials: It is targeted at all audiences and it will work because Apple made it NATURAL and EASY.

I disagree with rush24 though, because selling something that doesn't work from the beginning is crap and is going to make customers angry (something MS wants to avoid!).

I hope MS will provide the software as soon as possible so HTC, Samsung and others can integrate a front-facing camera into their devices.

hvakrg

It's already been easy to use, as I stated eariler it's just as easy as making a phonecall on my Galaxy S. And any WP7 phone with a front facing camera will be able to do the same and you won't need WiFi to do it.

http://intensedebate.com/people/l3v5y l3v5y

But MS will have to add to the dialler, OEMs will have to add hardware, and hardware manufacturers will have to produce CE7 compatible drivers.

http://www.facebook.com/expectafight Evan Anthony Powell

Hell, If we are just wishing for features, why don't we take it back to old samsung feature phones and have the camera swivel?

I think there should be an option but I'm sure MS doesn't want to do anything to intentionally fragment their installed base and piss off all the developers that they are paying off. We'll have to wait and see about this one. Maybe 2011…

(isn't 2011 shaping up to be a helluva Mobile OS War??!!)

I'm still very curious about the battery life to WP7 devices. If they do in fact end up with FF and rear cameras, while constantly synching information across your personal cloud as well as social websites and constantly running critical programs, they might need a nuclear battery.

http://intensedebate.com/people/l3v5y l3v5y

Having a second camera really shouldn't do much to battery life, until you use it. The WinCE power management is pretty good (though it's down to a hardware manufacturer to get the driver/control software right).

WAKE UP

Having a second camera means less space for a larger battery. I agree with Evan's curiosity. NO ONE seems concerned about sufficient battery life in minimum specs until they get the phone in hand only to complain that the battery sucks and necessitates a return to sender. OS makers must start requiring minimum battery life performance before certifying devices to use their platforms.

http://intensedebate.com/people/djguapo djguapo

I had one of those Samsung swivel-camera phones, the i700!

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1425676469 Warren Cush

i believ it should be something MS can put into consideraton interms of specs and thats it. for as long as i can remember htc always had FF cameras but just wasnt supported in the state and i wouln't be surprised if they have a few waiting to come out. having a FF camera will definitely benefit in the long run, all MS has to do is require the phone to have the capability to use the camera and leav it up to the OEM's to decided wether to manufacture them or not. i personally would love that feature on a phone but like what Evan said what about the battery life. not to say i wont use it at home but if im away from family and just hearing there voice just might not cut, letting them see my face and me seeing there's as well i can definitely enjoy. spec wise MS should require it of the OEM's and let them decide to make it. MS already have the software for it like there messenger for the desktop just create a version for mobile scaled down or even black and white, what ever works and thats my 2 cents…lol

http://intensedebate.com/people/l3v5y l3v5y

That's most likely the way things will go. The baseline hardware will be required, but optional things like a forward camera will not be required for sale.

http://intensedebate.com/people/djguapo djguapo

Sorry but I have to disagree like everyone else. Microsoft does not need a reason to delay WP7. Besides, there are a lot of other things with a higher priority in development than this, such as multitasking, copy & paste, external storage, collaborative gaming with 360 & PC, and access to low-level API, among other things.
iFloss™

Good point. I think this is going to be a hidden feature that will be able to be taken advantage of via software exploit or hardware addition (being front facing camera)

Microsoft isn't scared and I think Microsoft should keep the spec sheet for their RELEASE PHONES. We'll see something that competes with retina display if that happens because if the minimum specs are that high then we'll see someone outdo them just to stay ahead of the game and get more sales.

On the other hand I would appreciate if they dropped it because that way not every phone will have a snapdragon proc and same specs. That would lead to fragmentation
http://www.facebook.com/J88NYR Jonny Rose

No one uses video calls, its not going to take off either for a while either, you need anywhere with a signal to be 3g at least
http://twitter.com/chmun77 @chmun77

I'm not really concern about the front view camera. But I'm rather hope that the main camera at the back will be able to take nice and sharp photos. And of course, the OS better be able to handle high resolution picture sizes and no lagging when viewing the pictures. Any idea what is the specifications of the back camera of WP7?
Watcher

I think Paul has fallen into the RDF. Look, until iPhone 4/iOS 4, there was 1) no multitasking, 2) no front facing camera, 3) 480×320 resolution. Did those iPhones do well given that 2) and screens larger than 3) were available for years elsewhere? Hell, even today, I can make video call on a phone with a front facing camera to most if not all GSM-3G phones using the 3G network instead of Wifi. It is the ignorance of the public about such features.

WP7 has multitasking like iOS4, and has a resolution close enough to the iPhone 4 at the high end (800×480 vs 960×640). As for MANDATORY front facing cam, no. Paul missed the point that as long as the hardware is close enough, the experience can easily makeup for the specs.
GAM3R

Ive read WinMo forums had some old (2008) threads who were very compliant that winmo caused freeze/ lock up, and crashed itself during video call via fornt face camera.

Phone makers didnt remove FFC from any phones, just moved it from winmo to android powered phones which are successful… I dont think FFC runs Wp7 (aka zune OS).. VERY IMPOSSBILE!! Like somewhere here I said Wp7/Zune OS is the glued lego, can't add at all.. prove me wrong if you can?

Not just iphone 4 has FFC, but Android-powered EVO, Dell streak and Samsung galaxy s already have FFC before apple 2010 wwdc released ip4 in public.