Google whines again–says it only wants patents if they can keep them to itself

August 4, 2011 | By Surur

Microsoft debunked Google’s claim of being excluded from a cartel purchasing Novell patents this morning, leaving the company with pretty bad egg on its face.

Now David Drummond, Google’s Chief Legal Officer has responded once again, calling Microsoft’s approach to Google a “false gotcha!”

Claiming the patents are useless to defend Android if he did not own them exclusively, he pated himself on the back for not falling for Microsoft’s “ingenious” evil machinations.

Google of course again made light of the fact that they are giving OEMs an OS based on the patents which they are not bothering to spend money licensing or purchasing. To Google patents are clearly just weapons and do not represent the fruits of the intellectual effort of many individuals and companies, representative of their attitude to all IP in general.

Google is showing itself more and more to be a free rider on the efforts of content and IP creators. One wonders how long such parasitism will be tolerated.

About Surur

Site Admin and Windows Phone enthusiast, he has been using Windows Mobile devices since before they were called PocketPC’s. He is currently sporting a HTC 7 Trophy.

Tagged android, google

http://www.facebook.com/marsupy Paul Renda

So basically Google is ripping off the efforts of hundreds (if not thousands) of hard working programers… did I get that right?

Anonymous

yup.
Aceofspades25

Wrong…. Most software patents, don’t patent algorithms or actual code. They patent design ideas (most of these being patently obvious – excuse the pun)

For example: Apple are suing HTC for turning numbers and email addresses in texts / emails into links that can be clicked on.

Nobody should be allowed to patent ideas as obvious as this, and I guarantee it did not take hundreds / thousands of programmers to come up with this.

Anonymous

not exactly, what they pattented is how to make it happen. Most of people does that too, but they look forward for a home-made solution and not just look about how others do the things and copy it.

Anonymous

So if Google had acquired the rights to these patents, that would have been OK. But when others acquired them, it’s a “hostile, organized campaign”. It’s OK for Google to undermine Microsoft’s for-pay OS licensing business by giving Android away for free, but it’s not OK for Microsoft to undermine Google’s attempts to give away for free an OS that violates patents belonging to Microsoft

Daniel A. Shockley

Irony: You make a strong statement against a company being accused of free-riding on the content and IP of other by exactly quoting someone else without attribution. You entire comment is an exact quote of John Gruber’s article at DaringFireball.net. See http://daringfireball.net/2011/08/google_patently_absurd

http://twitter.com/Twitteninja ZZ

The Microsoft patents Android infringes on are so general I’m not surprised they don’t want to pay:

5,579,517: Common name space for long and short filenames
5,758,352: Common name space for long and short filenames
6,621,746: Monitoring entropic conditions of a flash memory device as an indicator for invoking erasure operations
6,826,762: Radio interface layer in a cell phone with a set of APIs having a hardware-independent proxy layer and a hardware-specific driver layer
6,909,910: Method and system for managing changes to a contact database
7,644,376: Flexible architecture for notifying applications of state changes
5,664,133: Context sensitive menu system/menu behavior
6,578,054: Method and system for supporting off-line mode of operation and synchronization using resource state information
6,370,566: Generating meeting requests and group scheduling from a mobile device

http://twitter.com/efjay01 Ef Jay

Care to actually go into details of the individual patents? Just typing out the names without going into an accurate explanation of how they work isnt really putting the case forward.

http://twitter.com/Twitteninja ZZ

Links to the descriptions of the patents MS gave in their complaint to the ITC against Motorola can be found here: http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/10/microsoft-sues-motorola-citing-android-patent-infringement.ars

If you read the claims, some of the infringements MS are claiming: Android having software to interface with a phone radio, displaying popup context menus, having a notification system, having a contact database and being able to use apps offline.

http://twitter.com/domineus Malcolm Williams

read every patent and come back. It’s not general and if Microsoft took the time to legitimately patent their structure or their scheme, then their intellectual property should be protected by the law. You may find them “general” but in fact, if they were so general, google would’ve change their format
It’s just like the judge said
Google’s brazen use of IP is pathetic and as if they are invincible. But in fact, google is not

http://twitter.com/turkis9 Turk M. Fox

You do realise Microsoft didn’t invent any of these technologies, right? They just went and bought the patents, because they have billions of dollars lying around. Microsoft and Apple teamed up and jointly bought these bogus and generic (which they are, if you read them in their entirety) in an attempt to frighten off smartphone manufacturers from making Android devices.

This is probably the reason it’s taken Nokia so long to release their own OS. They had to make a deal with Microsoft to manufacture phones with WP7 (& 8 in the future) before being allowed to release the N9, even though the interfaces and operating systems looks so very different from each other.

Bottom line, no one in their right mind can look at iOS, Android, and WP7 and say they’re all exactly the same. And if you can’t say that, then how can you say Android copied WP7? It’s ridiculous. Especially seeing as WP7 is the last one out the gate. This whole thing is about squashing the competition, not innovation or stopping people from copying or stealing from IPs. If it was, Microsoft wouldn’t have a hand to play, seeing as they didn’t invent any of this shit. Neither did Apple. And yeah, neither did Google. Microsoft and Apple were just willing to pay the big bucks to stave off competitors.
http://www.facebook.com/jason.duffus Jason Duffus

Yes, Microsoft has bought patents but the patents provided by ZZ are valid patents Microsoft has had since Windows Mobile days that out date both Android and iOS. For your information, Nokia has more patients centered around the cellular/mobile industry than any other company in the mobile industry. So to claim that Nokia had to partner with Microsoft just to jet their phone out is just wrong. You obviously haven’t done your research, for opinions and or biases do not count as facts but only fuel misinformation.
http://twitter.com/turkis9 Turk M. Fox

Some of the ones he posted are, sure, but the major ones, like the Nortel patents were only acquired recently. And Nokia has some patents, sure, but they have far fewer patents that pertain to smartphones and their respective operating systems. You obviously haven’t done any research.
http://twitter.com/turkis9 Turk M. Fox

Some of the ones he posted are, sure, but the major ones, like the Nortel patents were only acquired recently. And Nokia has some patents, sure, but they have far fewer patents that pertain to smartphones and their respective operating systems. You obviously haven’t done any research.
Anonymous

bottom line: google does not invest in research to get patents, they spend more on advertising in their past decade of existence than research. now they pay the piper.
http://chmun77.myopenid.com/ Claypot77

I think that’s who the real world works. Regardless of buying or inventing, as long as one holds the patent, he is the king. And I think is stupid that Google did not do that. Google did not go with the rules, hence it is at losing end.

I suggest we should drop Android out there and hop onto WP7 instead, looking at things now.
http://twitter.com/turkis9 Turk M. Fox

Google tried. They were outbid by Microsoft and Apple.

Anonymous

this is how google fanboys argue though, they pull the title of a patent and pretend they are a lawyer, as if the title will say anything about the methodology or techniques within a specific patent.

http://www.facebook.com/jason.duffus Jason Duffus

I know you have listed the actual patents but have you actually read in full detail. the naming of a patient can be generic but the patients in general have to be very specific. If not, I think you argument is void.

for example here is the link for Patent 5,758,352: Common name space for long and short filenames (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5758352.PN.&OS=PN/5758352&RS=PN/5758352)

As you can see this patent is very specific though the name/title is very generic.
Anonymous

you realize the title of a patent says nothing about a patent right? just letting you know. please read the 30-50 pages of each patents claims and methodologies, then come back and apologize for being so batshit stupid.

http://twitter.com/Twitteninja ZZ

Too bad the claims and methodlogies are more general than the titles themselves.

rsgx

Perhaps they are above your level of comprehension.

I’ll go with that option.

http://twitter.com/Twitteninja ZZ

Keep telling yourself that when Lodsys starts knocking on app developers doors when in-app purchases are introduced to WP7.

Anonymous

Whether you think the patents are obvious or not is irrelevant. While the patents stand Google has a choice – they can either pay a license fee for the patents or they can violate them and hope that they don’t get sued. Unfortunately they chose the latter route and now they are complaining that it’s not fair that Microsoft and others are trying to get the money they are owed.

It doesn’t matter whether you think software patents are good or bad, what Google has done is essentially stealing. If Google are really opposed to software patents they should:
– freely license all the patents they own including their search patents
– try and have patents invalidated legally. If that fails they should license the patents.
http://twitter.com/AaronCT123 Aaron C-T

“The Microsoft patents Android infringes on are so general I’m not surprised they don’t want to pay:”

Yeah, but it’s the law.
http://twitter.com/AaronCT123 Aaron C-T

“The Microsoft patents Android infringes on are so general I’m not surprised they don’t want to pay:”

Yeah, but it’s the law.

Anonymous

He didn’t even have enough knowledge to know it is Windows Phone not Mobile!

He had to edit his post and change it to Windows Phone after thousands website laughed at him.

When you don’t even know it is Windows Phone not Mobile then how do you expect people give you any credit? You are not woorking in Walmart, Target. You are working in Google and still you don’t have a very basic knowledge about all these “The Product Name”.

So Shut The F… Up and quit crying and wining in public, and go back to your whole and stay there.

Anonymous

Speaking of “didn’t have enough knowledge”… go back to his whole what? His whole huge office at a multibillion dollar company? His whole bag of M&Ms he’s been saving for after lunch? Oh, you meant go back to your “hole.”

Knowledge, she’s a tricky beast, eh?

Anonymous

It was a typo and I edited after I posted my comment. I guess you saw my post right after I submit and before I fix the typo.

Have a nice day!

Anonymous

Poor Google….remember this little ditty?

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/01/google-accuses-bing-of-cheating-piggybacking-off-its-search-r/

rsgx

Yes… and you really think that is MS was copying them, they wouldn’t have sued?

They would’ve, because it’s their main cash cow. But, fact is, MS wasn’t copying anything and they knew it.

Anonymous

google was trying to get the attention away from the conference on google spam that very same day lmao

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=765278708 James Foster

This is what I wrote in the comments of WSJ article “Google: Rivals Are Ganging Up”:

“David Drummond doesn’t know what he is talking or more likely just trying to spread propaganda. Microsoft and Apple have not always been at each others throats. Thats just the public image. In fact they have had stronge partnerships and alliances together for 34 years or so now. For example, MS wrote the first important programs for the Mac like Multiplan, years before that they had provided Microsoft BASIC (rebranded as Apple BASIC) for the Apple II. Then think about the 1997 alliance announced at MacWorld 97. Or the fact that the Mac Business Unit is the number 1 supplier of applications to the Mac ahead of even Adobe.
The vast majority of Apple customers don’t own an Apple computer, They own an iPhone or iPod. Which in the vast majority of cases they hook up with a Windows PC.
The problem that Microsoft, Apple, Oracle and others have with Google is their attitude to other people’s IP. Google guard their own IP (especially search algorithms and datacentre technologies) very closely. But they think they can just take other people’s stuff without paying for it.
I personally have come to despise Google for their contempt for the privacy of all of us who use the internet. They are the most privacy hostile company out of the major internet businesses according to PI. For example they haven’t deleted a search query since early 1999, everyone of which is linked to an IP address.
At present I own a Samsung Galaxy S II (the best phone in the world according to Techradar, The Register, PC Pro and countless magazines and blogs) but I will switch in a few months to the iPhone 5 or a top of the range Nokia Windows Phone.
I pity those who have flocked to Google for every product and service they use online. Google is a trojan horse offering free online services and in return you get your privacy raped”.

Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903366504576486673239634388.html#ixzz1U6DVgsMy

http://chmun77.myopenid.com/ Claypot77

If I can remember correctly, I think MS does have shares in Apple right?

Anyway, you sure that you wanna switch to iPhone 5? It doesn’t seems to have much improvement from iOS4. And it is such a closed OS, you sure of it?
http://chmun77.myopenid.com/ Claypot77

If I can remember correctly, I think MS does have shares in Apple right?

Anyway, you sure that you wanna switch to iPhone 5? It doesn’t seems to have much improvement from iOS4. And it is such a closed OS, you sure of it?

Anonymous

Does Google own any patents? Can anybody use them for free?

Anonymous

google has 700 patents in its 13 year history. to put that into perspective, microsoft receives 700 patents every 2.5 months from its r&d division. Most of google’s patents are related to web search, and most are very weak patents.

rsgx

They should have kept quiet from the start. My opinion of them is slipping.

rsgx

MS responds again:

Update: Well, once again, Frank Shaw, lead corporate communications for Microsoft, has taken to Twitter to tell Redmond’s side of the story. In several tweets he reiterates that Google rebuffed Microsoft’s offer to tag team the patent-bidding process and claims that El Goog wanted Novell’s IP all to itself — so that it could sue others instead of using the portfolio to reduce patent-liability for all. We don’t know if that was Google’s true intention, but we do enjoy seeing these two tech titans duke it out in a public forum. Keep it up, guys.

http://chmun77.myopenid.com/ Claypot77

“To Google patents are clearly just weapons and do not represent the fruits of the intellectual effort of many individuals and companies, representative of their attitude to all IP in general.”

Sorry Google, that’s not how the real business world works. You have to patent your own inventions or you will be screwed when someone else copied your ideas and use patents on you instead.
http://chmun77.myopenid.com/ Claypot77

“To Google patents are clearly just weapons and do not represent the fruits of the intellectual effort of many individuals and companies, representative of their attitude to all IP in general.”

Sorry Google, that’s not how the real business world works. You have to patent your own inventions or you will be screwed when someone else copied your ideas and use patents on you instead.
Anonymous

I love that weeping Android logo
Anonymous

If anything this just seals my opinion of Google. This company has no direction. They have no direction in their innovation (what have they really innovated on beyond search, and how many multiple projects did they have on Beta?), no direction in business (have they diversified from search and ad revenue since?), no direction in their corporate values (‘don’t do evil’ is not a value – it is a strategy for avoidance), and now they don’t have no direction in their corporate comms too (whine and cry bully).
Anonymous

The department of justice has already ruled on this on the side with Google. What does this mean. Well none of the Nortel patents which the anti competitive consortium (according to the doj) can be used against open source software including Android. So effectively 4.5 billion has been wasted on useless patents. It also means that it has actually made Android cheaper, because no longer to manufacters building devices using open source software have to pay license fees to Nortel for use of its patents. More importantly it menas that the doj has officially accepted that Microsoft, Apple, Oracle and RIM have been using patents in an anti competitive action. Under US law this is illegal and has made a ruling as such.

This completely justifies Googles position.

Anonymous

No moron they haven’t. They ruled on Novell patents and said that the new patent owners had to “license” them to the open source community. That means they couldn’t withhold them, they had to share them but they could charge other companies fair market price for licensing. The DOJ is now looking into the more recent Nortel patent purchases and will probably make the same ruling. All that means is that one way or another Google or Android ot HTC or Samsung or any company that uses Android has to pay for the patents in the OS that belong to other companies. Android is breaking the law and any company that uses the OS is breaking the law. HTC pays Microsoft something like $10 per Android phone for licensing of patents. They and a few other very small companies are the only ones following the law.
Whether you agree or not, patents are property and as such are not free to take and use for your own purposes. You must negotiate with the patent holder.
Android is a great idea and is growing and innovating nicely but until everything in it is pure 100% Google patented code the lawsuits will continue.
Giving away an OS full of other people’s ideas and inventions is evil.
That’s why the courts and lawyers are involved now.

Anonymous

Sorry moron your wrong, heres what the doj ruled

“All of the Novell patents will be acquired subject to the GNU General Public License, Version 2, a widely adopted open-source license, and the Open Invention Network (OIN) License, a significant license for the Linux System;”

So while open source software has to license the patents the license is under the terms of GNU 2 guess what that’s free.

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2011/April/11-at-491.html

Microsoft have effectively been forced out of this deal yet have to license again for free but they contributed to the purchase. If anything this means the DOJ has found Microsoft purchasing patents for anti competitive means.

Patents are pieces of paper and are only legally binding if upheld in a court. HTC, Microsoft, Google nor the patent system can make any patent legally binding.

What is illegal is using a financial advantage to purchase patents for anti competitive means is illegal and thats clearly what the DOJ found in this case and forced a change in the terms of purchase. Effectively making 4.5 billion spent on patents in an attempt to stop Android failed. More importantly it puts Microsoft, Apple and Oracle on the DOJ’s rader and under close scrutiny for illegal anti competitive actions.

http://www.cinemasoldier.com JeffreyVC

Painting Google as the problem here means you’re overlooking far too much. The patent system is broken. Microsoft is abusing patents to try and target Android and nearly every major tech player is using patents offensively (or being sued) by someone else. It’s getting out of control.

A good intro to the problem is here: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/441/when-patents-attack

This isn’t just a Google and Microsoft issue.

Aceofspades25

Congratulations on being one of the only WMPowerUsers capable of thinking for themselves

Aceofspades25

Please don’t justify this bullshit

I know that Microsoft is our favourite company,

but software patents are unnecessary, they are unethical, they increase the cost of everybody’s smart phones and they stifle innovation.

What Microsoft and Apple are doing might be legal, but it is unethical.

We shouldn’t be praising Microsoft for this, we should be criticising them for suing anybody that hasn’t filed a suit against them first.
Aceofspades25

Please don’t justify this bullshit

I know that Microsoft is our favourite company,

but software patents are unnecessary, they are unethical, they increase the cost of everybody’s smart phones and they stifle innovation.

What Microsoft and Apple are doing might be legal, but it is unethical.

We shouldn’t be praising Microsoft for this, we should be criticising them for suing anybody that hasn’t filed a suit against them first.